Groan. How many times must we watch errors?
Let me take us back. It’s the late 80′s. Instinct Press and Records is still alive and consistently making me no money. I am selling tapes and CD’s @ Record Town in Crossgates and ripping tickets @ the Spectrum Theatre (before it had a number after the name). I am searching for Truth, which i am still hopeful exists. The Spectrum is the best place for me to find Truth. At least the content and quality of the films are serious- even when funny. But yet they never got to the real issue. I wanted the dialogue on Jesus. Me and most of my friends had talked about Jesus, in brief at least , but no one knew how to lead that discussion. So, Jesus was usually dismissed for lack of voices of experience. Then I saw that the Last Temptation of the Christ was playing in town.
I thought, “finally, a movie about Jesus at the Spectrum. Let the dialogue begin!”
I bought the book, read some, headed to the movies and saw them. They were sour faced, constipated people. They carried signs proclaiming The Almighty’s displeasure with the movie. They were Christians. I fought through their little, incestous circle. They remained stone faced, convinvced that they were doing some serious. Protesters like to pretend that. Most of the time they are really seen for what they are: bored, torqued up people who have nothing better to do. Groan!!!
I watched the movie and no one to talk to. The self-righteous circle jerk had long dispersed. Of course they punked out and did not stick around. They had done their duties and probably were home watching Matlock.
Flash ahead to the 2000′s. Mel Gibson releases his Passion of the Christ. Evangelicals jump on it like a cinemagraphic bouncity-bounce. They produced study materials, have some groups, and rent whole theatres so they can watch it in a most abnormal way. Gibson’s Roman Catholic theology, often a sticking point for American Evangelical Protestants, is overlooked. He gets Christology right and they are happy.
The lesson? We can only dialogue when the starting point is the way we want things. In other words we have learned to embrace movies that indoctrinate, but have not figured out well how to evangelize. We expect Hollywood to have perfect Nicean theology.
Please, my beloved ones @ Terra Nova, and beyond…please ignore aggresive stupidity. See The DaVinci Code. Don’t expect Brown’s fiction to have right theology. Read up on what strikes you as off. Have the normal discussions about it with people. And when you see a 20 something with razor cut jeans who looks like he really expects something mystical to begin from him seeking God @ the movies, be nice to that kid. He may be your kids’ pastor some day.
[I was going to title the post "3 Movies and A Messiah', my wife will probably say I should have, but I didn't. Problems? Click here and tell me all about it.]
If it were a Christian film maker producing Da Vinci Code, I would have a big problem. We are called to sharpen each other within the body of Christ. But to expect non-Christians to act, believe, write, and produce like Christians is silly. As Bob Briner wrote in his brilliant book on Christians in the media and arts, Roaring Lambs, if we as Christians have a problem with secular films and music, we need to stop picketing and complaining, and start producing films and music that line up with Christ, or get behind (ie. go see, buy, invest in, pray for) Christian filmmakers and musicians. BTW, Patty and I will be at Da Vinci Code on opening night, if anyone wants to join us….
exactly my point. do we expect to dialogue, through media or interpersonally, only when people agree with us? so much for evangelism if that is the case. we are left handing out doctrinal statements to be signed as the entry point to conversation. GROAN.
it is hard not to be offended when there is a blatant misrepresentation of what people hold dear to them. petitioning against the movie is their way of taking a stand, doing something about it. while i think its just busy work that makes them look uptight, and in a way annoys me and makes me want to see the movie, i guess in a way they are standing up for what they believe in. a lot more than some of us do when we are confronted with things we know are wrong.
…Oh, LB and I will be there on opening night if I’m not giving birth – I’m calling the sitter right after I finish writing this blog…
I must admit that it gets me a little heated (ok, a lot heated) when I hear professing Christians saying things like “I will NEVER go see The DaVinci Code or even watch House or My Name is Earl for that matter!” When asked “Why not?” they respond with answers like “If I won’t allow my children to see it, then I probably shouldn’t see it” (I guess I shouldn’t be allowed to cross the road by myself because my 4-year-old isn’t allowed to…) or as they stutter further when they’re asked “What is it that you are offended by in those types of media?” They respond “Well, I’ve never actually seen it, but the previews look bad enough!” What?!
Ok,I know that I have no right to judge them for taking a stand in that way. That’s their perogative. I guess, I’m starting to see things differently – yes, the Roaring Lambs way. Do I believe that Brown’s agenda is right and good? From the book, I’d say absolutely not. I think the DaVinci Code could be very dangerous to those comtemplating a life that follows Christ. Do I think that karma and my trying to right my wrongs by going down a a list of a hundred items can get me into Heaven? I’ve been entertained by Earl and his goofy kin, yet I don’t agree that good works alone are the key. And just because I stood on the street in NYC watching a fight, doesn’t mean I support violence. It does mean that I was aware and conscience of my surroundings and then I chose to hold my husband’s hand and walk with some friends around the scene avoiding becoming a part of it.
I just know that I want to be the kind of Christian that can be aware of what’s out there in 2006 (and not be completely ignorant and naive, throwing judgement around in the name of Christ) – enough to be ready to have a conversation with someone who is seeking spiritual truth and be able to point them in the right direction. I know that I am so far from being a roaring lamb, but, darnit, I’d really like to try to love all kinds of people and talk and be with them in a way that Jesus was. Right where they’re at: reading or watching The DaVinci Code or sitting on their couch at home laughing with Earl.
I take devilish (maybe even childish) pleasure in gleefully telling christians of a more conservative bent how “I just can’t wait to go see the DaVinci Code”. I love the look on thier faces. It’s sort of a “I’ll pray for you and your evil ways” look, and I revel in it.
That’s what I like about you, Phil. :-)
I’m running into the same problem with Christians at work. What I’ve been getting is “I don’t want my money going to them!” When asked which movie they could go to where the money doesn’t go to sinners they are left to stutter and stumble and toss out whatever the first legalist cliché that comes to mind is. And I know I should love my brothers and sisters as they stumble in their own cess-filled theological hypocrisy… but part of me wants to beat them until they are laying fetal and quivering in their own blood and excrement.
Just being honest. :-)
That’s a little harsh, waraxe.
Shuggs is right waraxe. I even feel that phil’s pleasure in seeing other christians squirm while he talks about what has so obviously become sin to them to be a wee bit carnal. even if it is alot of fun! let’s not allow our views on culture and our own woundings cause us to become arrogant and insensitive.
well, on waraxe’s behalf, he does not give into that part of him. He only honestly recognized its presence.
Wow… rough crowd. At least now I know who to avoid when I have to share any personal struggles. :-)
*in Gollum voice* …not like… Marcelle… Marcelles cares… Marcelle knows…
:-)
awww!! poor waraxe! does someone with the name waraxe seeking sympathy strike anyone else as ironic?
I’m trying to imagine how the post event–online dialogue would have gone if this technology was available just after Jesus opened a can in the temple and started tipping over tables and cages like a disgruntled postal worker? What constitutes a better impetus to righteous anger? The misrepresentation of the Da Vinci code or those who protest such movies and probably turn even more people against Christ and His Church? My money is on the second one. Though I have to admit, that stevaxe’s blood and excrement is a litte graphic . . . but funny!
I’m trying to imagine how the post event–online dialogue would have gone if this technology was available just after Jesus opened a can in the temple and started tipping over tables and cages like a disgruntled postal worker? What constitutes a better impetus to righteous anger? The misrepresentation of the Da Vinci code or those who protest such movies and probably turn even more people against Christ and His Church? My money is on the second one. Though I have to admit, that stevaxe’s blood and excrement is a litte graphic . . . but funny!
I like how phil said it twice for emphasis. :-) Right on!
The waraxe is just who I am (at least since 1991)… and the tendency always has to be to channel my destructive calories in constructive directions. For the last several years I try to channel them through the gift of discernment (my highest rated spiritual gift whenever I take one of those tests). As such… and as a twisted stroke of fate… the Christians who defy all logic and Biblical reason not only peg my discernometer hot, but they totally irk me as well.
It’s my thorn for being such a rabble rouser. :-)
Christ’s actions certainly revealed his anger at those who were misusing the house of God. Also i seriously doubt that he used a monotone to call the pharisees a brood of vipers. righteous anger is Christ-like. The DaVinci code protesters are showing some pharisee like attitudes. therefore anger is appropriate. i just worry about the smugness that can occur when we take the moral highground. we could fall into the same trap they did.
About 4 or 5 weeks ago I read in Time magazine (or Newsweek, but what’s the difference?) about a Christian woman whose birthday is on The DaVinci Code’s opening night. She bought 20 advance tickets and plans to bring a bunch of friend to see it for her birthday. Her idea was generate questions, and open a dialogue with her friends about Jesus. “What a concept” said I with a hint of sarcasm in my tone. What a wonderfully normal and great way for a Christian to not look like a nut-job, and at the same time point people to Jesus.
*Side note: What’s the boycotter’s goal anyway? To keep the dead from becoming more dead? Like a spiritual version of The Princess Bride. “He’s only mostly dead.”
And not to sound cliché here, but if one person starts a spiritual journey that ends with an eternal relationship with Jesus because of seeing or reading TDVC, then does all the hype really matter? TDVC will eventually go the way of “The Last Temptation” and will fade from the forefront of the minds of the well intentioned boycotters. It will fade from the headlines. And it will fade itself. Christ will remain. I love being a Christian sometimes.
I’ll go see it. The book was pretty good.
I just blogged about TDVC over at Negative99.
Sometime i wonder if Christians are more proud of what they stand against than what they stand for.
i love the blogosphere. it gives us all a chance to engage in discussionsthat we’d otherwise have no time for. i too have posted in my blog regarding the davinci code. see it here
So, each one of us must decide if we are going to see The DaVinci Code or not. I don’t believe this is a clear-cut decision that can apply to every Christian the same. Before we all rush out to the theaters, can we talk about how we are going to decide?
PRO’s: (reasons to go see it or read it)
-Everybody’s talking about it. We will be more culturally relevant and can use it as a starting-point for Christ-centered conversations with unbelievers.
-It’s entertaining.
-We want to decide for ourselves, and not just swallow what the ultraconservatives say about all this.
CON’s: (reasons to stay away)
-The book and movie do not exalt Christ. They undermine the truth of his deity. It should give us, at minimum, displeasure to see Christ’s deity mocked.
-It mixes truth and lies in a subtle way that is hard to sort out unless we are strong in both theology and history. This is what deception is. It could plant seeds of doubt in our minds.
My opinion is: If we decide to see this movie or read this book, we must be willing to do our homework and check out the historical and theological facts to guard against the seeds of doubt. In my estimation, many are simply not going to take the time to do this and are not going to be able to discern what is true and what is false.
How are you all going to decide?
Ed — great post, and nice site! I commented on this post here: http://www.davidopderbeck.com/archives/2006/05/davinci_and_da.html
But you need to add permalinks and trackbacks to your blog posts so that other bloggers can link to you rather than trolling like this! And we need to know your RSS feed info!
~David Opderbeck
My husband & I attended one of the adult Sunday School electives at our church, specifically dealing with the DaVinci Code and how to use this as an opportunity to engage those who otherwise would shy away from “religious” discussion.
Our instructor made us dig through the Gnostic Gospels (actually read some of them), Constantine, Priory of Sion, Council of Nicaea and a whole slew of other topics in order to prepare us for what was out there (in some cases, he may have over-equipped us). He walked us through various paths of critical thinking – imagine that, critical thinking skills in a church!
It has been an incredible experience. As far as going to see the movie, my husband & I will go, but not on opening weekend (other plans). There was a discussion in class about Christians going vs. not going and the pro’s and con’s for both. The general consensus was that if someone doesn’t have a firm foundation in their faith and/or is incapable of picking apart fact from fiction, they should stay home. Although possessing a well-grounded faith, some still felt that they would not go see it, but also agreed that it would be ridiculous for them to pass judgement on the others who chose to use this as an opportunity.
many asians are going to boycott it
dave…the geek speak shot over my head, but i am sure the right geeks will see it and make the good things you mentioned happen.
Do you all think it is a “given” that it is the right thing for us all to go see the movie in order to be more culturally relevant, etc.; or do you think the choice is a still a serious matter for individual decision and prayer and conviction?
Why?
I argue with Ed’s original blanket encouragement to go see it. Some are weak in their faith and would be weakened by it. Some are not in social circles in which this movie is even a topic. Some know themselves well enough to realize that, due to their busy lives or whatever, they would simply not take the time and discipline to go search out the truth after seeing the false claims in the movie. For others, these things are not issues, and they must see this movie in order to talk intelligently with their subculture.
well flash, i guess my reaction is a strong counter to the article in the post…the one that called for condemnation and boycott of the movie. I still stand by my call that they are being agressively stupid.
I concede there are people who don’t have the money, won’t have the time, or simply lack the maturity or even intellectual capabilities to safely see, understand and discuss the movie.
So, there is no fiat from “Pope Ed” to see the movie. I would hope people make their own informed decisions. Some will choose not to interact with the 40,000,000 poeple who read the book and the millions more who will see the movie.
The reality is, like the Last Temptation of Christ, this movie will be forgotten, the opportunity to share Truth through it will pass, and God will judge us for what and why we do it.
I hope the people who are refusniks or not capable of connecting through this film find other things that are outside the Christian subcutlure to interact with. That seems to be a God thing, not an Ed thing. Meeting time bound moments with the eternal Truth is the work of Christ and Christians.
i’m going opening night if anyone wants to see it with me and some of my friends. we’ll probably be at crossgates for the 9PM ish showing.
Are those “uptight” christians “saved”?
If so are they your brothers, and if so is the love of Messiah reigning in your heart? Are you one with them as Jesus prayed for in Jn 17:23 and do you have the love of Jn 13:34,35?
If not what makes you “saved” and them not? 1 Jn 3:14 Who is the real Christian? It’s hard to tell.
I can understand what you are saying about the “uptight” and the movie but what does 1Jn 2:15-17 mean? And what does Jms 4:4-5 mean? Do you know? Where do you draw the line? They may be wrong but are you right?
Phil 2:2-5;1Cor 1:10;Eph 4:1-6 — Where is this Unity found? With those “other” Christians? What is a believer and are they really all together Acts 2:44?
It is always ineresting to me when Christians talk about other Christians this way — is this for real? Perhaps someone can answer my questions – perhaps some are better to left to think about and do some searching.
hey Dove…a blog is not like IMing…people don’t respond instantly. Please don’t be angry or dispirited that over 4 hours no one responded to your four posts.
as for me, i am not sure who you are talking to. i will try to answer your questions that i can
a real Christian has been awakened by Christ to the reality of their and the greatness of the love of God in Christ. They have responded in faith to His completed work of love and Jesus. They have found freedom in death, and life in HIs resurrection. They have moved in status from life to death, from the domain of the dark to the kingdom of light.
a follower of Christ can still sin. They can even angrily point fingers at non Christians in judgement over the way they treated Christ. Just think of John and James wanting to call down lighting and thunder over a town that had disrespected their Lord.
They can judge and mistreat other Christians.
As for telling who is a Christian, i sure can not with total accuracy. Some people seem to show a holier than thou morality and call it Christianity, some a bible knowledge, some a series of religous practices. The real measure is love out a pure conscience, a sincere faith and a gunuine heart.
I think those things are measured in actions. How we treat others even when in dialogue is surely a part of that.
as for the accusations of uptight and condemnation of Christians, maybe the people who did that will answer you. Maybe they won’t. A wise man chooses his battles and opponents carefully.
I hope this gives some answers and some peace.
Thank you for your response ED. I wasn’t growing impatient, I kept thinking about these things and adding them — my last post was a call to consider(but I appreciate your concern). I do thank you for letting me know “the ropes” about blogging. I was directing my question at the blog group.
I understand we still sin. In Matt 12:36-37 it speaks of taking accountability for your words. I think believers have a responsibilty to gaurd over their heart with all diligence and repent when they do sin Jms 5:16. If I see my brother sin I should go to him right? Matt18:15-18,Gal6:1. Being a believer isn’t a license to sin, but an avenue of forgiveness in thier struggle to learn and to take on the heart of God.
I didn’t want to choose opponents or battles, I was trying to help, friends are honest with one another.Pr 27:6.
I just wanted to know what anyone thought about unity — what it means “That they would be one as You and I are one, I in them and You in Me, that they may be perfected in one, and that the world may know that you have sent Me, and have loved them as You have loved Me.”
Hey dove – just came across your comments – I think I get some of what you are asking/saying and appreciate your knowledge of scripture – but there are those of us who react because of people who, in the name of Christ, attempt to beat the life/voice out of us with the Good Book. It becomes something other than speaking the truth in love – but more a pharisaical display and an attempt to silence the seeker/sinner/brother rather than truly a call to repentance. And we all sin in the process. We let anger cloud our judgment – past misunderstandings make us defensive – but in the end I think it is His kindness (and ours) that leads us to repentance . . .
Sorry – don’t have time to choose and identity – hmmmm, the irony . . .
I justify what i want (hez. 4:19)
cannonicity and all . . .
he joketh (2 Hez. 1:12)
Ed – I agree wholeheartedly with your main idea. But I just have to say -
“… fought through their little, incestous circle.”
“The self-righteous circle jerk had long dispersed…”
Wow! Language aside, just be glad you are not as judgemental and condemning as those people, right?
: )
i have my days.
I liked what the previous blogger wrote about the fact that Christians are more proud of what they stand against than what they stand for than what they stand for. I do not truly believe that living in a society like the US where about 15 percent of Americans own 70 percent of the wealth, and 50, million Americans live without healthcare, there isn’t anything Christ like about a society like ours. If we could spend the money we spend on warfare to fund a disasterous war that can’t be won, than our society will go down the tube.
I am a believer who is not afraid to not follow with the flock and justify how other believers should think.
I do not truly believe that living in a society like the US where about 15 percent of Americans own 70 percent of the wealth, and 50, million Americans live without healthcare, there isn’t anything Christ like about a society like ours. If we could spend the money we spend on warfare to fund a disasterous war that can’t be won, than our society will go down the tube.
I am a believer who is not afraid to not follow with the flock and justify how other believers should think.